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Poster: mcgannahan Date: Sep 13, 2007 10:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: a donna - less PITB ?

when i first discovered this place and began reading reviews i noticed lots of donna bashing. i thought man, they are hard on her, i didn't really "get what they meant"
but after exploring 73 pretty closely i fuckin hate what she did to all the playin in the band's. question: is there one, one goddamm shittin playin in the band from 72-74 that she didn't fuck up? please let me know so i can drink my tea, and relax in the arm chair for 20 - 3o minutes and listen proper. thanks

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Poster: BryanE Date: Sep 13, 2007 10:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

Here's a link to her band's website. If you put it to her just like you did here, she will probably understand how strongly you feel about it and will be more than happy to answer the question for you.

http://www.heartofgoldband.com/

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Poster: acetboy Date: Sep 13, 2007 11:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

.

This post was modified by acetboy on 2008-05-29 23:11:32

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2007-09-13 18:53:19

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Poster: BryanE Date: Sep 13, 2007 6:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

Well, it's one thing for someone to say she, or anyone/anything else doesn't appeal to him, but it's another thing altogether to post stuff like "i fuckin hate what she did to all the playin in the band's. question: is there one, one goddamm shittin playin in the band from 72-74 that she didn't fuck up?" In spite of how some, maybe even the majority might feel, there's nothing wrong with someone such as I to express how offensive the rest of us find comments like that to be.

This post was modified by BryanE on 2007-09-14 01:32:11

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Poster: patkelley Date: Sep 13, 2007 12:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

Here's a website you might like.
www.selfrighteousdick.com

Let me know what you think!!

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Poster: BryanE Date: Sep 13, 2007 5:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

Here's what I think about whatever good ol' patkelly has to say:







































.

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Poster: patkelley Date: Sep 14, 2007 5:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

it's kelley

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Sep 13, 2007 12:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

For an in-depth discussion of the Pro and Con Donna camps, refer to this thread: http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=69485

(I started it under the poster name lehighvet88 I think, then it was changed to somedarkhollow, then to SDH2O in a protest over the "2" fiasco, and then back to SomeDarkHollow...long strange trip indeed)

Just found this ticket stub, amazing show, so-so location:

[IMG]http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/3862/ticketrp4.jpg[/IMG]



This post was modified by SomeDarkHollow on 2007-09-13 19:18:52

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Poster: Lou Davenport Date: Sep 13, 2007 2:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

I read the newspaper or make to-do lists during the first 2.5 minutes of PitB, and really start listening when it relaxes into the jam. So there's a point in there when Donna sings?

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Poster: midnight sun Date: Sep 13, 2007 2:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

the point of impact

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 13, 2007 3:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

Two men after my own heart.

Thanks for the support, Lou & MS.

This post was modified by William Tell on 2007-09-13 22:46:23

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Poster: Hugo Fugerzev Date: Sep 13, 2007 10:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

I never minded the wailing Donna did after the jam on Playin'. It usually woke me up from any stupor I was in. That and I don't ever get tired of my wife saying, "what the fuck is she doing? Does she realize how she sounds?"
Ahhhh, it's the little things that make life wonderful.

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Poster: mcgannahan Date: Sep 13, 2007 11:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

just wanted to open that can of worms, to see what would happen, i don't mind her after the hiatus that much, and i have nothing against her as a person, just 73 is so wonderful, and those screams kind of put a damper on some good grooves, not to mention at 530 am when i'm driving to work, and "it" happens, i kinda get a weird feeling inside. bad weird, not good weird.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 13, 2007 11:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

Some like it, but frankly, music is music, afterall, and there are SOME objective criteria by which most folks can judge the sound they hear...and in general, I don't think there is too much of an argument on this one. Doesn't mean you 'hate Donna' or that she was a worthless piece of crap. Do I hate Phil because he had a hard time singing the Eleven most of 68? No--and I still love the song.

All it means is that by most standards of musical appreciation, she was not in tune with the song, and the harsh onsets and offsets of her 'scat' (to be gentle) simply do not fit the context of the song (look at it on a sonagraph or oscilliscope; very abrupt and disruptive). She does very well in some songs--even though I don't like late 70s STSt's, her voice fills in nicely on that one...

I think that PITB, GSET and Sunshine are her three major lapses.

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Poster: Death&Mercy Date: Sep 13, 2007 12:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

WT,

Bob and Jerry left the part in the tune for years. Were they unable to "judge the sound they hear"?

If the part had no place, it would have been eliminated quickly.

Donna just let it rip too loud a times (many times). Better than nothing though? I would say sometimes yes, sometimes no.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 13, 2007 1:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

Well, that's a point I suppose, BUT do you think they removed anything, ever? In the sense you suggest--for example, they fired Pig and Bob, but they never left...for all I know they fired Donna, but she just kept singing.

Jerry wasn't good at that sort of confrontation, so I tend to think it just wouldn't have happened that way.

My view, and I think those that make a business of analyzing sound, music, etc., would agree--is that it generally was bad (in these specific songs) so maybe they just put up with it like they did with so much of what happened to them over the years (all the managerial rip offs, money losses, etc.).

Hard to know I suppose. But I am glad we can debate it without anyone getting mad at us...

Thanks,

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Poster: caspersvapors Date: Sep 13, 2007 4:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

one of my favorite PITB's has no donna on it:

DP 14


but yeah I hated the shreiking she did in the 72-74 versions

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Poster: cousinkix1953 Date: Sep 13, 2007 10:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

Yes, no Donna screetching in late 73 and early 74. That benifit concert in Oakland (2-17-79) was her last show.

She had her place in some songs; but the screetching Playin stuff was her worst performance. You could cut it out with a WAV editor and splice the 2 files back together on your computer and be rid of this for good...

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Poster: Death&Mercy Date: Sep 13, 2007 11:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

I have no problem with what Donna did in Playin. She was part of the crescendo. It worked well for me. Wasn't beautiful by any stretch, but it worked. I had on a Playin from 1990 last night, and though it was well played, it was just flat; had no energy.

Now ... when we got that burst in the middle of a rippin Jerry solo in GSET ... different story.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 13, 2007 1:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

Ha! That is a different story!

Funny about wives and such mentioned above--mine (is it universal???) noticiably cringes when the songs get to those points...she has learned in a short time what's coming!

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Sep 13, 2007 1:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

As somebody pointed out, there were several shows at the end of November 1973 and through most of December where Donna didn't appear with the band. Some of these shows are prime cuts too.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 13, 2007 1:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

Hey Earl (or anyone?)--when does Donna start singing on stage? Keith is on board in Oct, 71, right? Does she not start for another yr? You all know I am not a 70s fan, but am curious.

The early PITBs and GSET certainly don't have her, but then most of those I have heard do, so I always thought it was pretty quickly on the heels of Keith joining up.

And, sorry, all, if I come off squarely in the Donna-bashing camp; I did most of my shows with the boys and her (74-82), so I heard it a alot...live it wasn't as bad--but all my tape listening during those yrs did turn me to the dark side on this issue.

So much for my Mr Nice Guy rep around here...

This post was modified by William Tell on 2007-09-13 20:46:49

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Poster: huntr Date: Sep 13, 2007 1:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

Ive always blamed poorly mixed SBD tapes

Im not saying she was always on key or anything ..

but I cant imagine it sounded as bad in the hall as it does on a SBD with no crowd noise and a "rough" on the fly mix

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 13, 2007 2:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

Right--listening to those March 68 tapes reminded of how nice some halls sounded (also why I always liked indoors over out). And your point is well taken--visually, I also liked her on stage with the boys--I thought that worked well. And though I don't listen to them much, when Jerry wasn't singing as well in later yrs, I liked her harmonies with him on some songs (again, StSt).

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 14, 2007 1:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

I'm not too upset by the PITB wails, I know to just turn it down. (The wails on top of the GSET solos, though, are very frustrating! Maybe Jerry would've taken it right into St Stephen if not for the screaming?)
That said, she was gone during December '73, and as it happens the shows from 11/30, 12/2 and 12/19 are all on Dick's Picks, so that's three glorious Playin's you can hear without Donna. 12/2 is the best Playing ever.

(...I mean, for anyone who remembers what a Dick's Pick was....times used to be, we got at least two or three new Dead shows released every year....)

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Poster: Max Chorak Date: Sep 13, 2007 10:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

bah --- from what I hear, jerry wanted her to scream like that..


digustibus non disputandum - there is no accounting for taste



I like how donna added to a lot of the songs


edit: maybe we should open up a "shittiest donna screams" thread, it sounds like it'd be a lot of fun trying to pick out the most ear-screeching ones

This post was modified by Max Chorak on 2007-09-13 17:27:31

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Sep 13, 2007 10:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

I tried this once on a more serious day on the forum. No one responded.

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=145633

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Poster: northstar dead Date: Sep 13, 2007 10:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

woahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhheaaaaaaaaaaaah
heah heah heah heah heah


NO

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Poster: mcgannahan Date: Sep 13, 2007 10:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a donna - less PITB ?

wait i just remebered she wasn't with the boys in late 73, there is a jesus afterall! hally looya